Lost Treasure, with Daniel Estes: Rediscovering the Works of Rose Estes

 [MUSIC PLAYING] Mountain of Mirrors, anyone? How about Dragon of Doom?



 Either way, I have an endless quest for you. I'm Sarah, and this is a role to play, an RPG community podcast exploring the world of role-playing games.



 This is episode seven.



 Daniel Estes is the eldest son of Rose Estes, the acclaimed author and originator of the Endless Quest series by TSR.



 Daniel is the host of the Instagram and YouTube channel, Return to Brookmere, where each week he celebrates his mother's legacy of work by sharing her stories and stories behind them. Join me as Daniel discusses his journey in rediscovering these works and the treasures he has uncovered along with them, from narrating stories, collaborating on writing projects, to learning more about himself and his relationship with his mother. And if you're curious like me, stay tuned for bonus content at the end, where Daniel shares more about being a braille transcriptionist and working with blind students. Hey, welcome, Daniel. Nice to have you. It's very exciting to be here.



 Thank you for having me. Yeah, so I found you on Instagram, and you were sharing stories that your mother had written. Your mother is well-known for her Endless Quest series, possibly-- depending on who you talk to-- possibly best known for Endless Quest series.



 My personal favorite was The Mountain of Mirrors. I know that people all have their favorites out there. But when I stumbled on you on Instagram, I thought, oh, so cool. I remember these books. They're awesome. And it was a real treat to see them being brought to life, and especially because of that family connection, you being her oldest son, and carrying on that tradition, honoring the work that she has done. So yeah, I knew for a while that I wanted to make some connection, and here we are. So it's great.



 It's exciting to be here together. And I couldn't be happier to hear how excited you were to find my stories. Going in, I didn't know what to expect, but like yourself. Everybody has been delighted, overjoyed, to find these stories, to find me sharing them, and to, once again, set off on this quest after so many years. Tell me a bit more about yourself.



 Sure.



 Well, when I'm not telling stories, I work with students with disabilities. For eight years, I was a braille transcriptionist, working with the blind and visually impaired. And it was my job to put lessons into accessible formats for those students. I did that for eight years. It was tremendously rewarding to work with not only the students, but the teachers and the aides that worked with those students.



 It was a fantastically rich experience.



 And side note, it served as the initial motivation for my telling stories on Instagram. I wanted a format where I could engage the blind reader



 and allow them not only to participate in a story, but to actively make choices on where that story might go. So that was part of the initial motivation for bringing my stories to Instagram.



 After my first student graduated, I decided to move to the University of Arkansas, where I'm at now, with the Center for Educational Access. And in addition to helping the blind students, I now serve all students with disabilities. Our role at the university is to provide accommodations for students with disabilities, or any barrier, whether it be temporary or long term.



 I find that fascinating. So I did not know any of that about you. My degree is in elementary education. And after several years pursuing that degree, I thought, well, hold up. I better get in the classroom and see just what it's like and just how well I do with children and that role as a teacher. And so I left the program and took the first opportunity I could find to get into schools. And that was as a Braille transcriptionist. Immediately I fell in love with the work. I learned Braille.



 But in addition, I also learned what more those who are blind need to know to make it in a sighted world.



 And I remained in that position for the year, went back and finished my degree, and then I was asked if I would consider coming back. I enjoyed it so much. I found it so rewarding. I did, and I stuck with it for eight years.



 So tell me about this writing.



 Sure. Well, we're all artists in our family. And I'm the only one who has stuck with the traditional nine to five jobs.



 My family keeps saying, why? You know, express yourself.



 Leave the daily grind. Do your thing. And I'd love to.



 I haven't found that opportunity to do so yet. But my Instagram account has been the opportunity for me to express myself creatively.



 And in doing so, it was only a short while after sharing stories that I decided that I might like to take a stab at writing them.



 But I didn't want to try on my own. And the entire idea behind Return to Brookmere, my Instagram account, is a collaborative storytelling experience. And so what I invited the listeners to do was join me for a collaborative writing project, if they so chose. And that first book, Sifting the Ash,



 brought together five writers and myself. We had a poet, one published author,



 and two more authors that became published and myself as well. I was the only newbie who hadn't yet put pen to paper.



 And together, we wrote a collaborative story. I started it with the first chapter.



 And consecutively, each writer would then add to it. It's a collaborative writing project, a chance to be creative together, and quite the creative challenge to create a cohesive story with so many different voices, but a chance to tell a story together and learn from the talent that everybody brings to the story.



 Yes, absolutely. Everything you just said, I think it would be challenging if you have so many cooks in the kitchen, so to speak. But it's also kind of like playing D&D, or another role playing game where everyone wants to go and do their own thing or be a hero in a different way. You know, I hadn't thought about that, how this collaborative storytelling is a lot like Dungeons and Dragons, where you just simply make choices as a team and then move forward.



 That's a great parallel. Got that support. Everyone's working together. You're going to turn up something different and possibly more interesting than what you would have-- like, if you had-- well, likely more interesting than what you would have if you would have just done it on your own. That's, of course, the aim.



 And these collaborative writing projects are not just a chance to write with and learn from other writers, but at the core of it, it's still a celebration of my mother's stories that we all love and were inspired by. In each story is a tribute in one way or another to my mother. In Sifting the Ash, one of our main characters, we named after my mother, but not by name. This character's name is not Rose. It's Yasna, the Arabic name for white rose. And she plays a key role in our adventure.



 This is on my Instagram account.



 I did present One of the Paths to Sifting the Ash on Instagram.



 And we spent a period of time making our way through that adventure. And that adventure in its entirety is now available to my Patreons.



 But for those who choose to dig through the archives of Instagram, they'll find that story, at least one of the paths presented. Oh, cool. And I've got a summary of the story I could share to tell you, just to give you a better idea of what it is that we created. Well, let's do it. Yeah. All right.



 Brother Cyril Mark Kool has been a devout friar for decades since actively campaigning in the Crusades. His travels in South France bring a dubious supernatural association. He once cultivated as a young man, both marshally and romantically into his contemporary life, whether the will of Providence, fate or the mechanizations of foolish men. Mark Kool will have to use his wits, experience and faith to navigate this intense evening of otherworldly entry.



 Ooh. That's sifting the ash. Oh, that sounds really interesting.



 Well, and that's something else I wanted to talk about, like the way that you narrate the story. You've you're not just reading like many people, there's an art to reading, there's an art to presenting. And you are mastering that art. Clearly, you're spending the effort and paying attention to how to do this well. Can you tell me about the journey that took you to that? Like, I'm curious. Yeah, you're very kind to say so.



 I don't know about the artistry and the mastery of it, but if I've come close to achieving either, it's just simply throwing myself into each story with abandon.



 So part of why I say that is like I have followed your Instagram account for a while. I've seen some return to Brookmere and the endless quests.



 And I was also I saw your latest, your latest venture, the Indiana Jones, if I may go there.



 And I thought, wow, like I I think like to me, I see a real progression. There it is. There it is.



 Yeah. And what is that called? The the Queen of Sheba or something? Yeah, Indiana Jones and the lost treasure of Sheba. The lost treasure of Sheba. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And so there were a few things about that that struck me.



 One is I see a progression in terms of like just any time we start something, we start off at a certain place and then we keep doing, keep doing, keep doing it. We can't help but get better. Right. So I feel like that's been happening. And not only that, but I noticed with the Indiana Jones book, it's got a different feel to it and there's different types of characters in it. So like you've always vocalized the characters in the endless quest books, but those characters are of a certain nature. They're they're they're a bit different. When I heard you narrate the Indiana Jones book, and especially when when you started to voice Indiana Jones himself, I was like, what?



 It got my attention like, this is a different voice. I haven't heard this one before. And like, oh, this sounds like Indiana Jones. This is Indiana Jones. So it was to me, it was really neat to see that come out. And maybe it's just like partly like combination of experience and also with opportunity that this is in the book that to be presented. I'm beside myself with joy to hear just how engaging you have found the story to be. And grossing myself, throwing myself into the stories hasn't ever been hard because it's my mother's work. And I'm so proud to read. But not only that, to discover these stories,



 because I haven't ever read all of them all the way through with all of the paths. And so for much of the stories I'm reading, it's like, if not the very first time I've been down this path before.



 So it's a very thrilling adventure that with every page I can't help but be really.



 Wrapped up in, and I'm glad that that comes across in the story. But the. The hope, the aim I had to bring to life the story in a greater way with this new story, Indiana Jones and the lost treasure of Sheba was my reason for moving to to YouTube.



 For three years now, I've told the stories on Instagram.



 And I think part of the joy of telling the stories on Instagram is that it's me. It's me.



 And the stories and and and and you, the.



 That's not the listener, but.



 In reading these stories.



 I can't just focus on the text. I have to focus on on my performance, on my delivery and engaging with you,



 the listener, the follower, and in doing so, that takes my attention away from the text.



 So I moved to YouTube to do away with the minute limit I have to do away with the storytelling that require a swipe to make a seamless story, not limited by time. But one more importantly, where I could excuse myself and.



 I could put the story, the text, the characters, the front and center, and that's the biggest change that I hope that the followers discovered with my.



 New approach to storytelling this year on YouTube, that



 it's the story itself that shines and is put front and center. And I'm glad that that came across for you. Just for a moment, I want to talk more about these about these stories. There are a number of them, like just to make sure we've got contacts. See, like here's the mountain of mirrors. This is like this is like, you know, one of my favorite, probably my favorite, my favorite one, I also picked this one up, got that off of Amazon. Pillars of Pentagon. Yeah.



 And I was disappointed they put these stickers on them and it's like, why did they do that? It's like, do you not recognize the value of these books?



 Yeah, so these are the types of books that you've been taking the readers through. So, yeah, like you have one that one there is my personal favorite. Oh, yeah. And the first one that I read of my mother's. So you and I share a love of mountain of mirrors.



 That's that's that was my first adventure. You know what I loved about this? It caught me was this this artwork and I understand it's it's Larry Elmore did this artwork and I realize I love Larry's artwork because every time I see it, I just I just love it. And I saw an interview with him recently where he was saying he was looking for that vibe where you would look at the image and then you'd wonder, like, what are they thinking? What are they doing? What's there? And that's so perfect for for a quest book like this. And it's I don't know that I think someone else did the artwork inside, but there's artwork all inside the book as well. Jim Holloway did the interior art for Mountain of Mirrors. But there's there's Elmore, there's Easley, there's Parkinson, there's Holloway, there's Tim Truman.



 There's quite an extraordinary lineup of artists that did these illustrations, both the cover and interior art for these endless quests. And they were certainly the what most enticed, I'm certain,



 a great many readers to grab the book and to open it up. But what I think is really exciting is that as fantastic as those illustrations are inside the stories, especially those that my mother wrote, were quite engrossing and much more immersive than most of the



 Endless Quest styles book books that preceded my mother's end as well. Yeah, no, absolutely. I know what you're talking about. I read I read a bunch of those as well. These were my favorite. These were hands down my favorite. And Mountain of Mirrors was was was number one. Not everyone will know of these books, right? Like these these are going back to a period in time. And I think had a big had a big influence on a lot of people, probably brought more people into role playing games and perhaps inspired some people to to do some writing. And and there's also something about going through these books, the choices that you make and thinking through what is your choice. And that I remember experiencing that, like really trying to pick the right path that would take me somewhere. And I've certainly I've seen that in your Return to a Brookmere channel and sort of like those little hints and reminders of, well, you know, so that's been interesting, too. I was in a tea house the other day talking about my mother's books. And those of us of a certain generation knew of the Endless Quests. But I'll tell you something, Sarah, that's really, really exciting and surprising. In this tea house, it was me and four ladies, two women and two girls.



 The older ladies knew of the Endless Quests, but only one had read the Endless Quest and knew my mother by name. I was one of the young girls. And I was so surprised that this young child knew of Endless Quests and knew my mother by name.



 But I don't suppose it's so surprising because D&D certainly has become



 much more widely played and appreciated by a contemporary audience, because and it's always been true,



 Dungeons and Dragons invites those alternative communities, those fringe groups that can't find a place to call their own elsewhere. Dungeons and Dragons and the world of RPGs has created that space for these individuals. And so not surprisingly, there's a younger audience out there. And thank goodness



 young girls that are now reading and enjoying these stories and playing the games as well.



 It's a shame that they go away, so to speak, this is a concept that was foreign to me. And now I'm like, where did all my favorite books go? I can't find them.



 But for those who for those who would really like to get their hands on the copy, they can find copies in my bio. I saw all the books signed by my mother. And in addition to the autograph, my mother also includes an inscription under the cover about the book and her memories of writing it. So if you can't find that book elsewhere and you'd like an extra special copy of the Endless Quest or any one of the adventures my mother has written, check out the link in my bio, you'll find those books there. I wanted to ask you about growing up with these stories as your mother was actually writing them. Were you involved in the process? Did she read them to you or test them with you? Or what was that like?



 Uh, no, no.



 No, she didn't read them to us. She didn't test them out on us. And honestly, we didn't ask about them.



 When I was a kid, the only thing I was really excited about and what was most important to me was getting home in time to see Gilligan's Island and watch the Brady Bunch.



 It did profoundly shape my brother's life, though. And I think for both my brother and me, what really made an impact, a lasting impact on us and helped shape us as individuals was



 with my mother's writing, the artistic community, the creative community that surrounded her and us had a profound effect. And for my brother, he noticed these artists earning a living by drawing. And he took that inspiration and he's taken it to the bank. My brother, I'm tremendously proud of him, but my brother, Max, has authored 30 books now, which he's illustrated and written all for children.



 Wow. So for Max, it was a



 profound



 influence and those artists, especially the illustrators, they had a lasting impression on us.



 Wow. Okay. And I know on your YouTube channel, you have a YouTube. You're reading a book that Max wrote.



 And I have to look that up. What was it? The Night at the Library?



 There is a library.



 And



 it's Night at the Library in Norwegian.



 But this story.



 This story is about.



 Some time that he and my mother spent together when he was a child that I never knew about until he



 wrote this story, Night at the Library is about the privilege that my mother and brother had, because there's some creative liberties taken in the book. It says our father. But in truth, it was Tom Wam, my mother's boyfriend and



 affectionately, the man that we call our stepfather, Tom Wam worked at the library. He was their computer guy and he was there late each night doing computer things. And



 he unlocked the door for two interlopers each evening, apparently. And that's when my brother and mother would have the library all to the themselves. And what an exciting privilege that was. The library itself in Lake Geneva was designed by one of Frank Lloyd Wright's students. It's a fantastically beautiful library. And to have that all to themselves, of course, that left a lasting impression on my brother and that impression. And the beautiful story that came from it is here.



 Memorialized in this story, Night at the Library. It's a beautiful story. I watched the I watched you read it on YouTube and as I was watching, I was I was engrossed in the story. I thought, wow, what a beautiful concept. And I was like, I hope this is real. I hope this is real.



 It certainly is.



 My heart goes out to the librarians who wondered where those books went the next morning because I



 got a feeling my mother and brother just helped themselves and they weren't checked out. Oh, my gosh. Right. That would violate like every library in principle. It's got to be catalogued and checked out and all this and late fees.



 That'll be part two of the missing library books. Oh, that's awesome. But I think the other thing that I noticed that just looking at some of the some of the writing, this is complex stuff for kids. Like, like, I don't think I knew what a fascist was at these ages, right?



 Yeah. And there's a lot with this story that presents real challenges for a story teller, because what does a fascist sound like and what does an Ethiopian sound like? And we all know what Indiana Jones sounds like. But my greatest challenge with this story was voicing these characters. And I entertained it for a moment, but I quickly decided that I wasn't going to attempt to make a fascist voice, certainly wasn't going to attempt to evoke an Ethiopian persona. I was going to disappoint, if not offend my my listeners. So instead, I strive to simply just create something that's distinct. You may have been exposed to quite a bit of culture or concepts and ideas. Do you think that is this true? As a child,



 that exploration of new places, new ideas, new experiences came from one place exclusively in a place that was easily found at our home. And that, of course, was books.



 My mother is a voracious reader and says that every writer needs to be such. And I believe that that's how she's able to



 speak with such authority and create such vivid worlds is because of the worlds that she's learned about simply by opening the covers of a book. And that was my experience as well as a child.



 The children's the children's story that we all grew up with was. Oh, there it is. The Hobbit.



 My mother's Bible and J.R. Tolkien's work was.



 J.R. Tolkien's work was such a.



 A profound inspiration on my mother that it not only served as possibly most likely the inspiration for her to even entertain the idea of writing fantasy herself, but she went so far as to give her children all middle names from the trilogy and really it's true. Can I ask? My middle name is Aragorn. My sisters are when and Max is Sam Wise. Wow.



 So that exposure to other worlds, ideas, experiences.



 It all started by opening up that cover and wow, going on the adventure for wherever that journey might lead us. You said like when you're when you were much younger, you didn't really pay attention to what your mother was doing, you were proud of her and what she was doing. But then at some point you came back to it or you discovered it. When did that happen? When did you really come to appreciate your mother's work?



 It was the pandemic. I was talking the other day with a friend and he asked me, why did you start this account? I've always loved storytelling.



 But I had to think for a moment on just why it is that I started Instagram and I couldn't come up with why I started Return to Brookmere on Instagram. And I couldn't come up with a a good question. And I told him



 I started it during the pandemic. And he said, well, perhaps you were wanting to engage. And that was certainly the case. We were all.



 In remote learning at that point, and I was meeting with my students virtually, spending all my day, all my days at home



 and the opportunity they need, they pull to be creative and to engage with somebody.



 Led me to Instagram. I was sitting around. I saw one of my mother's books. I was.



 Dungeon of Dread is the book it was.



 And I thought, well, this might be fun to to read on Instagram. And so I did. And I think it was born out of a need to simply engage during that that pandemic. But what better way to engage than with a choose your own adventure? And it quickly became a celebration of my mother's work. But more than that, a chance to celebrate this,



 these these adventures with the fans in a very real and engaging way that,



 well, the listeners choose just just where that adventure will go. You know, reading is a very solitary thing, but these endless quests really lend themselves to not only being suited for everybody who wants to join the adventure, but an opportunity for us to share something that we personally love, have a history with and memories, a chance to share that with others and make new memories and through questing with with with other adventures, because of course, each week I give the listeners a chance to choose which path to take and some of my father was will reach out and I'll say, no, no, no, we can't go down that path.



 But those few listeners that know just which path is right. So the others don't. And so we'll go down that other path. But as a result, we're going on a new quest. We're making new memories different from that adventure we first had as children. And to be able to do that with others



 collectively as a community adventuring together, I think that that's a really special opportunity that this account and these adventures bring not only for my listeners, but for me. And it's not just about getting it right. So there is something about saying, oh, you're going to go that way. I don't know. And to your earlier point, this is very much like those role playing games in that we're deciding as as a party, where will we go next? What choice will we make for better or for worse? And after all, these are game books. So the parallel is, of course, going to be similar. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But but also allowing allowing those mistakes to be made to go down the path that you know is wrong. And then say, oh, look at that. Like, oh, OK, well, now we know now we collectively know now all of us know. Right. You know. And there's something about that sort of it's a bit of a learned experience. Right. And I think that that's what's really important about these



 endless quests is that it empowers the reader



 and no other genre do you have the opportunity to take ownership of what you're reading, but you can in these choose your own adventures and in these endless quests, you're in charge of where the adventure goes for better or for worse. And for the young reader, that's not only very empowering, but there are a lot of very important lessons that can be taken away from those in those those choices that are made and unlike life where you don't get a redo. If you make the wrong choice in an endless quest, well, you can start over and choose the next path.



 So the adventure goes on, but the learning never ends. We might not finish this book now for another three weeks or whatever it's going to be because it's not driven by that need to get it done now. It creates space. Well, and that's what I think is really important about stories is that stories life itself is a story and.



 Unlike life, which moves at a fast pace, experiencing experiencing a story requires one to slow down, whether you're the narrator, the listener, the writer or the reader of a story. The time it takes to experience it allows for a moment of pause and reflection. And this is not something that can be easily achieved in the hustle and bustle of everyday life. I think reading gives us a chance to be to be grounded and to become.



 Yeah, all the more present



 in a life that doesn't afford those opportunities often. You use the word grounded and your words grounded and present. What does that mean to you and why is that important? I think that that's a draw for me with writing is that when you listen to a story, when you hear a story, when you read a story, it's a trance, a transporting effect, it's an escape.



 But when you write



 unavoidably yourself, who you are comes out on that page. I hope you don't mind if I poke at that a little further. I'm wondering what are you discovering about yourself as you're going through all this?



 What I'm discovering is quite surprising,



 reaffirming and sobering. I'm I'm



 I'm my mother.



 It's really been



 an exciting and surprising journey, this return to Brookmere,



 because it's not just a celebration of my mother. It's not just a chance to.



 Share these adventures with others who love it as well. But at the heart of it is my effort, my hope, my pursuit



 to know my mother better and to be closer to her. And.



 I say that reading and writing helps you know yourself. Well, for me, I have the unique experience in that what I'm reading are my mother's words, and I've come to discover a mother that I tremendously love, appreciate more and.



 I've recognized the wisdom that she's always had, but



 I've only come to know because I've taken the time to discover and read her words.



 And at the end of the day,



 that mother I've discovered,



 she's a lot, she's a lot like me.



 So, yeah, that's what I've discovered about myself. I'm not so different from my mother and it's enabled us to better understand each other, too, and I hope to get closer as well.



 Yeah, which is a tremendous reward for this account. I not only get a chance to to get to know and celebrate my mother with her readers, but I get to know and



 have found the ability to get closer to my mother herself.



 There's a character I'd love to use as an example



 in one of her books that I recently read, and my heart went out to and not just to me, but to a lot of the other readers as well. And.



 I'll read you a passage.



 That first introduces this character, if I may, and then go on to tell you the book, which I think will be apparent,



 but also speak to why it is that this character in particular



 spoke so so strongly to me.



 As the great dragon flies, clouds boil black beneath it and the land quakes and shudders, mountain peaks that have stood since time began crumble into adjoining valleys, long dormant volcanoes, spout geysers of lava and poison gas into the air and terrible storms lash the land. The dragon ignores the damage for Shen, the dragon of doom is only fitting, it's only fitting that the land should weep at Shen's passing, but Shen notes the cold wind upon scales, growing thin with age and mourns the loss of his warm dark cave. Who is this mortal who dares to summon me? Why could he not have left me alone? I do not disturb his sleep. Why does he disturb mine? What does he want of me? Wealth, power, that's all man ever wants. Forked lightning spews from the dragon's mouth and carves a deep trench in the earth where nothing will grow for hundreds of years. Slowly, slowly, the great dragon flies over the dark heads of the world into the light of day as the sun caresses its body. Shen's anger lessens, the warm touches old wounds and hurts and soothes them.



 It warms Shen's blood and for a time the dragon knows peace.



 Perhaps I shall listen to him. He who has summoned me, perhaps I shall do his bidding and not eat him directly. I shall see. And the dragon of doom flies on.



 Oh, wow.



 That is, of course, from Dragon of Doom. And when I read this adventure recently, it struck me and a lot of the listeners that Shen is the victim here. It was really hard to dislike the dragon of doom. And all he wanted was to be left alone in his cave to rest upon his hoard of treasures.



 And throughout the adventure, increasingly myself and my listeners were rooting for Shen.



 We wanted Shen to be victorious.



 Recently, when talking to my mother about the dragon of doom,



 she told me that.



 Shen is my mother. Shen is she. Oh, my God. Wow. Wow.



 And the we got there because I asked my mother, what was the hardest book for you to write?



 It was a question that was put to my mother via Instagram from one of my followers. Which book was the hardest for you to write? And without pause, she said a dragon of doom.



 Why? Why? I asked my mother. Well, that story is available for my patrons in my Patreon account, but why has to do with who and what she was upset with at the time, and she took that anger. She took that rage and she put it into Shen, the dragon of doom. And from that came the adventure. Wow. Wow. That was quite the hook. That was quite the hook. I mean, I could see maybe getting some more subscribers after that.



 But this is the discovery that just one of the discoveries that I've made about my mother and.



 It's not surprising to me that my heart went out to Shen because the Shen, the struggle that the Shen had was the struggle that my mother was going through.



 And I think for that reason, I identified with the dragon and my heart went out to him. Little did I know that the dragon I was sympathizing with was my mother. That is so powerful. Wow.



 Wow. That's. That's incredible.



 And it was just as powerful and incredible for me as well, too. My mother has agreed to write a monthly column for my patrons. And in February, she is going to write about her role as Shen, the dragon. And it's been years since she has read this adventure. And I said before you write about Shen, mom, make sure you read this adventure all the way through once again. She has I asked her for some initial reflections and talk about a tease. She didn't give me any other than then to say my first impression was it was written very well.



 But of course it was, you know, she was angry and she turned that anger into an artistic expression.



 And for me and perhaps for my mother, that that anger, that passion came through in the writing and



 really excited to have gotten her to read that story again and.



 I'm just as excited to hear the story behind Shen, the dragon.



 It sounds fascinating.



 What got me just in that little bit that you read is how this dragon is awoken and is so angry and is all good and think about his destruction. I'm going to eat you. But then the sun touches its wings and it and it's warmed. So it's like, oh, maybe this isn't so bad after all. Like maybe there's some good that is is affecting my outlook. So it's interesting to look at that. It's not just Shen on his own that is having this experience of just pure rage. But now Shen is affected by the world that Shen is in and is like, oh, OK, well, now that I have now that I have these needs matter, this has made me feel better. I don't need to be as angry. So I'm still angry, but we'll see.



 And isn't that life?



 Isn't that life? Because there is always a break in the clouds, but you don't always notice that sun that's shining through and then can warm those cold scales of yours.



 But Shen did and my mother did as well.



 And hopefully the reader will as well. But that just depends on the choices that are made. Instagram will always remain the home of return to Brookmere. It will be the place where I converse and celebrate and



 share the stories behind the stories with the readers and the fans. But the stories will move to YouTube



 to create a more seamless



 adventure and one that I hope is going to be more engrossing as well. And this year, I'm going to focus on my mother's



 later works that came after The Endless Quests for Random House. She wrote Find Your Fate series.



 There's a three investigator series that was written as well.



 These stories are less well known, but just as wonderful.



 And I look forward to presenting these stories and others



 that she's written after Endless Quests on YouTube. I'll, of course, return to The Endless Quests. But for now, yeah, I'm going to focus on the less well known but equally wonderful works of my mother's. It's a new storytelling adventure when I hope that's engrossing



 and all the more immersive for my listeners, but one that I'm really excited to say I'm going to collaborate with a voice actor. So



 I get the chance to not only bring the story to the listeners, to the best of my ability, but the privilege to work alongside and collaborate with a voice actor who's teaming up



 with my next story, which is part of the TSR



 anthology of books.



 Where is it? But it's not



 Dungeons and Dragons.



 It's a top secret spy adventure.



 Hero of Washington Square. And I'll be honest, it's not a book I read. But when I was looking for a book that I could collaborate with this voice actor on, I was looking for one that was rich with characters that had lots of personalities. And after I read that first page of Hero of Washington Square, it had to be that book. There are just so many rich characters in that story. So that'll be the adventure that I'm presenting next on YouTube. And another example of a wonderful work of my mother's, but one that's not as well known in addition to my mother's works. I do also hope to continue my writing collaboration and partner up with writers for short stories that I can not only read of these original works that I write with other writers, but that I can present with original illustrations as well, too. So if you are a writer and you'd like a chance to write an original story, if I could have the privilege of presenting it or if you're an artist and you'd like to illustrate these stories, these are stories as well that I look forward to presenting on YouTube.



 Oh, amazing. So if if there's any writers or artists out there that would like to participate, how would they how would they get in touch to to be part of this? Well, if they're not following me already, please do follow me at Return to Brookmere on YouTube



 and or Instagram, but direct message me on Instagram. Or you can email me at Return to Brookmere at Gmail dot com. Why is storytelling important?



 What is the role of a storyteller?



 I just I think life is a story and the role of a storyteller.



 Is to tell.



 The experience of life.



 In a way that others can relate to,



 but also in a way that opens the reader to new ideas, new possibilities, that offers the reader that break in the clouds, that warmth on otherwise cold scales, that we wouldn't have gotten without another voice simply speaking about our shared experience, the story of life.



 The role of a storyteller is to speak to this story we call life and find a way to connect with.



 And move forward together with



 the reader.



 Towards that break in the clouds, perhaps.



 Yeah, so storytelling is a collaboration between the person telling the story and the person hearing the story, receiving the story.



 Stories are can be.



 A solitary experience or they can be a shared experience, but ultimately, I believe.



 It's an experience that is shared



 whether that author is present or not, and it doesn't have to be



 between the pages of a book.



 Stories are what we share, whether they're bedtime stories where they're their. Accounts shared between friends of what happened that day



 or reminiscing.



 Some of the most.



 Moving stories are the ones that I've heard from my mother.



 These are the stories that I treasure the most,



 the ones that are not in print, but the ones that were shared to me in a moment.



 And built upon reflections of experiences had. That's it's I think this is also important because everybody has a story. We're sharing stories all the time. Those stories are important. They might not be stories for everyone. Like these favorite stories that your mother shared with you might not be stories that you want to share with the world, though, you know, certainly like what are the stories? But, you know, not every story is meant for public consumption. And every story has its has its purpose and its place. And they all help us to learn, like you said earlier, they help us to see who we are. Yeah.



 Well said, Sarah, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. You encapsulated my thinking exactly.



 It's not just the authors. It's not just those celebrated writers that are the storytellers. We're all storytellers. And whether you have something that's published or whether you have something that you're just sharing, you're a storyteller, we're all stories and we all have important stories to share



 that need to be heard and those those shared experiences.



 That's what makes storytelling important. Not only what we can learn and gain from those stories, but it's just as important for the storyteller to be able to share as well. Yeah, yeah. This is this is great. I'm glad that you followed that inner spark to explore this and see where it will take you. I'm excited for you as to where this will go. When I saw your post and you had the new microphone and you're moving to YouTube, I thought, oh, what is this? It was like that was just around the time that I was reaching out to you as well. So that was seems very timely.



 I wanted to just talk to you briefly as well, because you were talking about a little while ago, there was a collaboration that you were doing with with, I believe, a friend of yours and it goes back to the mountain of mirrors. And I feel like there may be more coming along that front. Do you want to tell us a bit more about that?



 There is there is more coming. And I just got an announcement last night. So this interview is perfectly timed because a new adventure is coming out shortly.



 My my friend.



 Roderick is a game designer with IceGrim creations,



 and Roderick is a tremendous fan of my mother's work. And like yourself, Sarah, a mountain of mirrors was a favorite adventure of his. Well, he's gone on to create a playable adventure of the quest.



 And.



 The mirrored mountain.



 It's it's beautiful. I again, I love the color. Sorry, the cover. I love the color and I love the cover.



 It's a classic story reimagined as a playable adventure that came out last year. And when it came out, I ran a contest and the winner got a place at the virtual table to play the game with me and friends. Well, Roderick has come out with his next adventure.



 I'm excited to say.



 Is.



 Return to Brookemere. He's reimagined.



 He's reimagined this



 story as a playable adventure, and he just sent me, I'm wondering, I'm hoping you can see this, he just sent me the cover art.



 That will be available soon in March, I believe. I'm going to run a contest for followers to win a copy of the game and also a chance to win a place at the virtual table to play the game with me and friends. But these these these these modules, these these playable adventures are something that ice grim creation is putting out and I'm just tremendously proud and feel very privileged to have the opportunity to share this work with my followers and for that lucky winner winners, they'll be several to to find a place at the table to play it with me.



 With all that I have. That's new this year that I'm most excited about.



 It's my mother's collaboration that is a long time in the waiting and the biggest reward that I have this year, but I feel certain the listeners will as well. There's a lot of unpublished work that I have of my mother's, a lot of original manuscripts, a lot of archived material from her days, not only with TSR, but Random House,



 these manuscripts, unpublished works and her monthly columns, these items and more. She has finally at long last agreed to share and that will be available for my patrons and I don't want to leave out those at Return to Brookmere on Instagram either. I will certainly be sharing some of these treasures with you there. But one of the biggest rewards that I'm looking forward to this year is sharing these in many cases, never before seen



 artifacts. That is a giant teaser. That is a giant teaser.



 Wow.



 So for anyone who hasn't hasn't heard of Rose Estes or Daniels Return to Brookmere, check out the you got to check out the the Instagram channel and the YouTube. And if you can get your hands on it, order from Daniel, get a copy of the book. They're fun. You know, something else I like about the books, the original Endless Quest books, I actually like the the text, the tactile feel of these covers. There's just something about it just makes makes me want to hold these books and just go through them. And they're just they are they are so lovely. Wow. That's I'm excited to learn that there is actually more. There's unpublished work and it sounds fascinating to to hear the stories behind the stories and what your mother was thinking. And I feel like



 you know, when I was first reading these stories, if like I could she could have shared that then I would not have been interested. But to have that come out now, I'd be very interested. So, wow, what a gift you're sitting like. You're like the dragon sitting on the treasure.



 Well, my mother is the dragon sitting on the treasure. I'm Bilbo, who has just happened to break into the dragon's lair and I'm sharing the loot with everybody. So get it before the dragon gets angry.



 Oh, that's great. That's great. Or the dragon of doom might not eat you. Right. Yes. Yes. Before she decides that she is no longer going to be so forgiving. Oh, wow. That's exciting. So it sounds like there's also like a like a really strong, like not just collaboration, but like an exploration of understanding, learning from each other, learning, like learning, learning about, learning, learning about yourself through this whole process that has got to be so incredibly rewarding as well. Yeah, yeah, it really is



 to share the stories I hope is a real pleasure and joy for my followers. But to be able to connect with and learn more about my mother is a personal reward that I tremendously treasure.



 But to be able to connect and to be able to learn more, these are the things. These are the treasures that I get to share with my followers as well. Yeah. Well, that's that's fabulous.



 Daniel, is there anything that I haven't touched on today that you were hoping that we would talk about or anything else that you would like to bring up before we bring this to a close? You know, Sarah, I'm sure there is. There is so much more to share. But let's save that for another interview. Oh, that's the opportunity to share more again. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's that's a that's a wonderful idea. Like there's lots going on. There'll be lots to follow up on. Who knows where this may take you. All this exploration, the collaborations, the writing with others, the artists and writers out there who will have a chance to approach you to perhaps be part of a collaborative project. So there's there's a lot of things happening. That's that's wonderful. Thank you so much for your time today.



 It was really a pleasure, really a pleasure to talk to you, Sarah. Thank you very much for the opportunity.



 This concludes episode seven of the a role to play podcast. You'll find Daniel at Return to Brookmere on Instagram. And this is the best way to reach him if you are a writer or an illustrator and would like to collaborate on a future project. You can also subscribe to Return to Brookmere on YouTube for weekly videos featuring the works of Rose Estes and Daniels future collaborations. If you want more of the stories behind the stories, check out Return to Brookmere on Patreon, both free and paid memberships are available.



 A role to play is an untamed dandelion production.



 Thanks for listening. Until next time, make a wish.



 Dream it true.



 But when you lose a sense, the rest of your senses do heighten. And for the blind, they are able to put their fingers on those braille cells and easily depict them easily decipher a B C D.



 My fingertips literally don't read that clearly, but nor is there a need because I do have my sight so I can read braille by sight, but not by touch. Yeah, yeah. And that makes sense because you would have to have quite a bit of sensitivity to detect the difference between those dots that are so close together.



 Yeah, yeah, you would.



 And.



 By touching it, they can, I imagine, see it in their mind's eye what it is that they're feeling.



 I don't have that that that ability. But when you lose a sense and when the rest of your senses are heightened, it is akin to a superpower.



 When I first started working with my first student,



 we were at the end of the day in the gym with the rest of the children, a K through five, and I imagine you can imagine, I'm sure how loud a gym is full of children waiting for their bus.



 And in this din of noise, my blind students blind since birth



 said my bus is here.



 That was my response. But



 I was so astounded and so confused. I decided to step outside and take a look for myself. I could see quite clearly his bus was not there. I came back in and I told him so. And he was really rather upset with me. He insisted my bus is here. I need to leave just to humor him. I went back outside to double check his bus was there. It wasn't the bus that I was seeing in front of me. His bus was behind the bus that I could see. How did he know?



 Guess. Can you guess? How did he know that he heard it? It seems like a superpower. But when you lose a sense, the rest of your senses do get heightened. And his are so keen that over the din of screaming, laughing, shouting children, he could hear his buses engine. He knew his bus was there. Wow. That's so neat. So neat. And I like how you said, like what it takes to live in a sighted world, because we rely so much on sight. I can see how just a little bit what it would be like to have different senses just through the eyes of my dog, like my dog can't see as clearly further away. And then when he really wants to know something, he smells it. So I'm not suggesting blind people use a sense of smell, but that probably is heightened as well. But it's just different ways of perceiving the world. Right. They certainly do use their sense of smell.



 Their sense of hearing for sure. We went out for a hike once and it was on a field trip. And afterwards he was reflecting on the experience and he said,



 what was it that crackled and whispered on our.



 Hike.



 I was so confused. And he said, whatever it was, I could feel it on my legs.



 And what he was talking about were grasses that had dried out seeds on them. And those dried out seeds he perceived as crackles and whispers when they brushed against his leg



 and working with this student and others was a real gift



 as a writer, because



 he illustrated the world in a way that I hadn't perceived and



 opened my eyes up to open my mind up really to understanding, perceiving, translating the world in a brighter, more expressive way. Your vocabulary must change to find the words to try to get your point across. Yeah. Yeah. So that's fascinating. Yeah. Wow. I asked him, what does the color blue look like? And he said, the sky, he doesn't know what blue or the sky looks like, but he knows that the sky is blue. So blue to him is the color of the sky. He relates it to



 visual references that he's been taught, but doesn't necessarily understand. Wow.



 That's so neat. OK, wow. What does red look like? Fire. Oh, cool. Cool. For people who play role playing games, I did come across a site. I don't have an offhand. I'll look for it. They were doing something with Braille dice, some way for blind people to tell the numbers on dice when they're playing a game. And I think that's pretty neat. Yeah. Tactile dice. Oh, they're out there for sure. Oh, of course. Of course, you know all this.



 Right. Yeah. But I suppose that would be for the old school visually impaired player, because, of course, there are digital dice now that'll just simply read to you. Well, you know, yeah, I'd rather throw those dice. Yes. There's something special about that, right? Yeah. OK. Yeah. Well, your ownership of that role. Yeah. Yeah.